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tv   CNN Newsroom  CNN  March 28, 2014 6:00am-8:01am PDT

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heroes".com to nominate someone like that that you know is doing great work worth honoring. that's it for us today. have a great weekend, everyone. chris is back here on monday. "newsroom" with carol costello is here. >> thank you. have a great weekend. "newsroom" starts now. breaking overnight, a major shift in the search. >> this continuing analysis indicates the plane was traveling faster than was previously estimated. >> new credible radar information moving efforts closer to the aussie coast. so what is seen on these satellite images. are we really back to square one? families of the passengers fed up and furious walking out of a meeting with malaysian officials accusing them of a coverup. >> roger. >> this, as investigators turn their focus on the pilot. >> estimate the area complete. >> how often should pilots be psychologically tested? breaking new details coming in every hour. a special edition of "newsroom" starts now.
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>> announcer: this is krnk >> announcer: this is krnk breaking news. -- captions by vitac -- good morning. i'm carol costello. new leads for malaysian airlines flight 370. minutes ago we learned that five patrol planes have spotted objects in a brand new search area that was first checked only hours ago. nearly 700 miles from yesterday's search area. the sea saw of emotions and seemingly endless contributions proved too much though for families aboard flight 370. they stormed out of this morning's briefing overwhelmed by frustration and fear that the search is once again starting over. cnn's andrew stevens is at the hub of that search, perth, australia. tell us more. >> reporter: carol, this could be a significant new development. as you say, just in the past few minutes the search coordinators, the australian maritime authority say five of the ten planes which were over that new
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zone today have all spotted debris. photos have been taken and they will be assessed overnight. they can't confirm anything, they can't verify anything or discount anything at this stage. a new zealand air force plane went up and saw a number of white or light objects in color. significantly an australian air force plane went up after that and re-located the same objects. the first time this has happened. we've had an actual re-location of an earlier sighting. the australians said that they saw two blue/gray rectangular objects and about 300 miles away another australian plane saw several other objects of different colors so that's three planes there plus another two. this as the search is moved a significant distance away from the southern area.
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700 miles into the -- north of the indian ocean which puts it much closer to perth which means planes can stay on station for much, much longer. this is significant because it comes after new analysis of the radar images that the investigators have been working with. that analysis suggests that the plane was flying faster than first thought. it was flying faster which meant it was burning more fuel and it came down long before the southern search area. 700 miles north in the new search zone. there is going to be a ship on station at the -- in the area where those objects are at some time tomorrow. it's there in the search zone at the moment. it's a chinese search vessel. it's the only one there. the rest of the fleet is still coming up from the southern end of the ocean. they're going to be on station tomorrow. we could get some actual eyes on. some of these objects taken on
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board a vessel to be identified one way or another, carol. >> well, we hope that happens. andrew stevens, thanks so much. want to take a closer look at that new search area right now. let's head to washington and cnn's tom foreman. this area much closer to shore, right? >> closer to shore. >> relatively speaking. >> relatively. you have to keep in mind the scale of all of this. we've gone through this day after day. yes, first time planes have spotted it but this is still a huge, huge task. this is perth over here. follow this path out here. we were about 1600 miles away. that's where we led to. the search area, see all those dots, that is where all those satellite images people were interested in. 47,000 square miles. there's 47,000 square miles. now we're talking about this other area up here to the north. that red section up there is what we're talking about. so this is really a substantial distance away and here's what i think is worth bearing in mind, carol. when the air france plane went
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down off the coast of south america and that ended up out in the middle of the atlantic ocean there, the surface debris was spread out mainly on a trail of three miles, a very limited scope compared to anything we're talking about here, and when they finally went down and did the side scan sonar and found the debris, it would have covered a few football fields, the actual thing you're looking for where the data recorders are and everything else. let me bring it out and thrust it out in the room. we'll drop that down on one of these search areas we're talking about, and look at this. it's not that size, it is a pin prick. a pin prick in that area. so, carol, again, just because it's worth having caution in all of this. even if they can sight the stuff again, that's a huge accomplishment that they have, even if they can get to it and pull it out of the water, even if it proves to be part of the plane, after all these days of drifting and currents out there, finding that pin prick under the water where the actual wreckage
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of the bulk of the plane might be with data recorders, that is still a gargantuan task. i would argue it's a much bigger task than they've ever taken on. air france it cost $45 million over two years before they finally found the debris at the bottom of the ocean and they knew where it was compared to this. >> even one small piece of debris would be vital for them at this moment. one small piece of that plane, right? >> yeah. it would end the basic question or at least help answer the basic question are the authorities right that the plane went down in this area? that would at least help with that. that would certainly help all of these families out there who have been dying for some sense of real knowledge, real sense and relief from their uncertainty in all of this. it would not tell us what's happened to the plane, why it went down. >> tom foreman, thanks as usual. so what about those satellite images that inspired searches in the southern indian ocean for the past ten days?
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are they of no value at all? maybe not. one australian official is downplaying their significance. >> we have not seen any debris. we have not wished to classify any of the satellite imagery as debris nor would i like to classify any of the few visual sightings that we've made as debris. that's just not justifiable from what we have seen. >> but the malaysian transport minister says the new search area, quote, could still be consistent with objects spotted by those satellites thanks to ocean drift. you heard what tom was saying. i want to bring in colleen keller, a senior analyst with metro, inc. she helped in the search for air france flight 447. your firm has been hired. let's talk about this new search area and the new debris spotted by the five planes, all different colors. first of all, i want to get your take on this. >> well, it was an interesting
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curveball, carol. we'll just have to go with the flow here. this is the nature of search. you know, we started with it could be anywhere in the -- in that hemisphere of the world and we've narrowed it down to the southern indian ocean now. this is just -- you know, when new data comes in you have to roll and move to the new area. it's not throwing away efforts that say that we've searched in the south. we actually -- you know, we never picked up a piece of debris so to look at it that way, we really -- we never saw the airplane down there. the fact that new information has come up and moved us up to the north, it's good from a logistical sense that we're closer to land. we can get the towed ping gers out there and i know that leaves for tomorrow and the search area. that will put us on the target not just picking up debris. it's important that we get those sensors in the water soon. >> going back to the five satellite images that they were basing their search on for the
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last ten days. could those images have shown us nothing at all? >> well, there's a lot of garbage in the ocean even down in the indian ocean. we heard various reports that the southern i.o. is pretty clean but there's still a lot of trash there. so those reports until we have something picked up, they were just potential. i don't think that -- you know, there's no validity to those reports unless we saw something. >> the interesting thing is is they worked this out using mathematics, i think, right? with this new area where the plane probably went down based on the speed in which it was traveling, and then these planes flew over that area and i would assume they saw these objects floating with their naked eye, five different planes spotted debris in the ocean. so, i don't know. i don't know what to think. that means the satellite images we've been talking about for the past couple of days mean nothing and we shouldn't have relied so heavily on them maybe. >> the satellites are very far away and they only have certain
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resolution. it was worth investigating, but i think it spoke volumes that we never actually spotted this stuff from the aircraft. the way the analysis has gone so far just to recap is the satellite pings put us in the southern hemisphere. they should have taken that and overlaid it with the aircraft's endurance based on the radar's last hit. they've just refined that calculation. we're narrowing in using the data we have. now if we can pick up some debris to corroborate it, we'll be in the ballpark. >> let's talk about all the garbage in the ocean. is it likely there's more garbage closer to australia than farther out? >> i think the currents in that region come from the north so it's possible that this is an australian garbage after all but i'm not an ocean expert. >> gotcha. in your mind, this is more hopeful sign? >> i -- i think it's good that they're going back and revisiting the data. this is the kind of analysis i
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would have expected, and i think that we're nairing down the search area, yes. >> colleen keller, many thanks. we appreciate it. >> you're welcome. still to come in the "newsroom," malaysian officials face empty seats after flight 370 families walk out of a briefing in protest. we'll talk about that next. we go a half an hour to an hour. it's quite fatiguing on the body. we change over quite regularly. ? oh, well we're double checking the distributed antenna system. so when all you fans post to instagram, there will be more network to handle it. so, uh you guys hiring? do you know how to optimize a nine beam, multi-beam antenna system? nope, that a deal breaker? pretty much. alright.
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families of flight 370 passengers have been demanding answers for three weeks now. today they took action in dramatic fashion. some 154 relatives walked out of a briefing in beijing in protest. one accused malaysian authorities of hiding facts saying people will be held accountable. cnn's david mckenzie is with family members in china. >> reporter: for days family members have been sitting, listening calmly to briefings from malaysian authorities. many of them complaining they're not getting the answers they want. so today they stood up. this man ended up saying that they are united, that the malaysian authorities have been hiding the truth and that they will get their punishment. all of the family members stood up and walked out. this hotel has been their environment for weeks now, stuck in a cycle of meetings, recrimination and anger.
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now they say they want to go to k.l. to complain. david mckenzie, cnn, beijing. david mckenzie reporting. still to come in the noesi ro -- "newsroom," we're at the border of ukraine. co: i've always found you don't know you need a hotel room until you're sure you do. bartender: thanks, captain obvious. co: which is what makes using the mobile app so useful. i can book a nearby hotel room from wherever i am. or, i could not book a hotel room and put my cellphone back into my pocket as if nothing happened. i don't need it right now.
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washington state is bracing for more heart ache today as authorities are expected to report a substantial rise in the death toll from that devastating landslide north of seattle. at least 17 bodies have been recovered now. 89 people are still missing. as search crews battle the mud
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and rain, some families are just beginning to mourn their losses. anna cabrera has more for you. >> reporter: a heroic moment in the midst of tragedy. an infant pulled from the wreckage of the deadly landslide. >> i was just the right guy at the right time. >> reporter: it was saturday minutes after this hilltop collapsed when cody weston rushed into the disaster zone after hearing cries for help. >> i could see the baby's face. he was all bruised up. he wasn't breathing very good. wasn't moving. >> reporter: the baby's mother also trapped in the mud and severely injured. >> she said his name was duke. i asked if i could take him out of there. she said yeah. >> reporter: in a brave and bold move, cody, a young father himself, scooped up the baby and ran to rescuers who just arrived. >> there was a ripped up roof on the mud and i laid the baby on that. i ripped off my jacket i had on, wrapped him up on that. >> reporter: baby duke and his mother are survivors, but here
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not all stories have the same happy outcome. 150 rescue workers, countless volunteers and heavy machinery are up against mother nature. mud piled three stories high, tons of toppled trees, and scraps of scattered homes. dozens are still missing and a death toll still expected to rise. dave brounner's days of digging led him to his sister, summer raf foe. >> we were cutting roofs off, she was sitting right in her driver's seat. we got her out enough. then i wrapped my arms around her. >> closure for steven kneel's family as well. the 52-year-old plumber was identified among the deceased. >> of course we melted. i dropped the phone and i screamed a little bit. >> reporter: now the daunting task of moving forward. >> we just can't think of life
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without him. >> reporter: anna cabrera, cnn, darrington, washington. tensions are mounting in ukraine. u.s. officials say as many as 40,000 russian troops are positioned near its border with ukraine. those troops and russia's recent annexation of crimea are sparking fears of a further incursion into ukrainian territory. president obama spoke about his concerns over this russian military buildup. >> you've seen a range of troops macing along that border under the guise of military exercises, but these are not what russia would normally be doing, and, you know, it may simply be an effort to intimidate ukraine or it may be the big additional plans. >> cnn's carl penhal is near the
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rush shan si russian/ukrainian border. carl, how are they responding to these forces on the ground? >> reporter: this is eastern ukraine now, carol. the russian border is a few miles that way. that is where the pentagon says 40,000 russian troops are now digging in with tanks and with attack helicopters. the ukrainian government says that number could almost be double that. now there is buildup of ukrainian military, but it is really the story, i think. these are civilians, but they're just organized themselves in self defense committees. you see them in uniforms. some have british uniforms, some have american uniforms, some have german uniforms that they've bought from army surplus stores, and these are the men who have left their civilian jobs. they're going to dig in as well. we're going to help our armed forces because they're going to need all the help they can get if the russian forces come
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through. if i can, i'll show you a little bit of the defenses they have made. car tires here, they've been putting up barricades here. they say if the russian troops come across, they'll set light to that. they'll set up physical smoke screens in case the russian tanks come through here. a little bit back here, hthey'v been digging trenches here. they've been doing here as well. of course, what these civilian self-defense forces say is this is maybe a gesture in vein. they realize that the russian army is well prepared, well equipped and will be moving very far, but they say they have experiences from their fathers and grandfathers from world war ii and they say what they're going to do is break down into partisan and guerrilla groups and fight the russians. that is a big if. what the pentagon is still telling us is they don't know
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what the real intentions of the russians are, whether it's just to create political destabilization or whether they genuinely intend to come into eastern ukraine and try and annex parts of russian speaking ukraine, carol. >> karl penhaul reporting live. it's unbelievable. the russians have such military might, tanks, the ukrainians are ready to fight them with, well, not much, frankly. we'll check back with karl penhaul in the ukraine. we didn't want to stay with that shot but it's going to go out. unbelievable. president obama meeting with the saudi arabian king in riad. they're a key in the middle east. that relationship has grown more complicated. saudis aren't happy with the united states reaching out with iran. more on this in the next hour of "newsroom." still to come, multiple new objects spotted in the search for flight 370 as the search shifts to a different part of
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the indian ocean. richard quest is in new york. he'll join us in just a moment. here's a word you should keep in mind "unbiased". some brokerage firms are but way too many aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money. which makes you wonder. isn't that a conflict? search "proprietary mutual funds". yikes!! then go to e*trade. we've got over 8,000 mutual funds and not one of them has our name on it. we're in the business of finding the right investments for you. e*trade. less for us, more for you. the fund's prospectus contains its investment objectives, risks, charges, expenses and other important information and should be read and considered carefully
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good morning. i'm carol costello. thanks so much for joining me. it is day 21 for the search for malaysian airlines flight 370. a busy morning of new developments. just minutes ago we learned several planes, five to be exact, have spotted objects in a new search area. overnight officials abandoned their previous focus and shifted their attention to this new zone nearly 700 miles away. now this latest reboot of the search nearly three weeks after the plane's disappearance was too much for the families of those aboard. you see here they walked out of a briefing in beijing accusing
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the malaysian government of wasting precious time and even covering up critical information. so let's talk about that new information. cnn safety analyst and author of "why planes crash"crash" david is here. >> nice to be here. >> an australian official says they've moved on from the old search area because they are no longer classifying earlier satellite images as debris. is that a bad idea, to totally abandon that old area? >> in fact what this tells me is they've got real credible evidence finally. i know we've heard that a hundred times. this evidence is strong enough, they have enough confidence in it that they've said we're no longer there, we're here. to me it's encouraging that they're narrowing down exactly where they truly feel this aircraft will be. >> so, peter, does that mean the satellite images we've been
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talking about for the last several days aren't worth anything? >> well, they may not be. what i know is that the ntsb and the investigative team have been really breaking new ground on the analysis of the inmarsat data. if you're, working with a number that runs out to 15 digit points, they're working with the last three or four numbers, which are very small increments, but it has given them a much clearer picture of where they believe this plane flew to and where it came down and it's their best shot before the flight data recorder and the voice recorder pingers perhaps wear out. >> the type of debris that these five separate planes spotted in this new area sound promising. richard quest, our aviation correspondent is with us now. those five planes, they spotted rectangular shaped debris, some of them longer, some shorter,
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and they're all different colors. what does that tell us? >> one can hazard a guess and you can jump right and center and say oh, it must be this or it must be that, but i think the significance is not so much the shapes and sizes at this point, it's the fact they've seen it. now if we go back to the old search area of the last week, the satellites were sending data and the planes were going over there and not finding anything and then one plane found something gray and orange and -- but substantially for the number of flights that were being sent, there was really nothing coming ba back. now we have the situation where the planes were sent out and they were over the new zone impact area, they were over it while the announcement was being made, and within hours we are getting multiple reports from several aircraft that objects
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have been sighted. so i think we have to take that very encouraging. >> david, there was even one plane who went back and then returned and spotted the debris again so that sounds promising. >> well, it's very promising, plus it indicates to me they most likely dropped a sono buoy there. i know there's not much information there but to have a sono buoy tracking this new field is incredibly important to be able to do that. >> peter, a chinese ship is in the area. of course, the search is done for today because it's nighttime there in australia, but how easy do you think it will be for this chinese ship to find this stuff tomorrow? >> well, it's going to be challenging, but there is a real sense of urgency. time is running out or it may have already run out. there is a real sense of urgency and they are devoting all of the resources that they have to get
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to this debris field and get it identified. >> richard, on the subject of time, those batteries are dying in those black boxes that are under the water somewhere so they don't have much time, and it makes you think that these satellite images, the five satellite images and the planes that are looking in that area, they weren't finding anything, it makes you think so much time wasted. >> no. you can look at it like that, carol, but you've got to keep coming back to as people were saying, the data they are working with is at the extremities of understanding so the prime minister of australia said it, the transport minister of malaysia said it time and again, they were doing the best they could with the information they had and so, yes, it wasn't time wasted as such, it was time spent on the information they had. now they've got better and more credible information.
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should she have waited? they had no choice. they had to go with what they had. the same way that they're doing the same thing here. you've got information, it's credible, it's the best lead you've got. carol, how many times have you and i talked in the last week about this phrase, the best lead they've got. it's all they've got. so that's why i think to characterize it as a waste of time is a little bit of a misnomer. >> last question for peter. i want you to put this in perspective. is this -- because it seems so chaotic to us because we've never been intimately involved with such an investigation, but is this normal? >> there's always a sense of chaos at the beginning of an accident. now there is the fog of war, so to speak, but, remember, these guys are trying to work with very little data. they're trying to work against a 30-day deadline. they are working around the
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clock and they would be negligent if they did not track down every satellite picture, every potential lead. they now believe this is the best information they've got. they want to give it everything they've got. this is the best shot. they're going to go at it. they've gotten some positive leads back. hopefully we'll know within 24/48 hours what we've got. >> thanks so much. still to come on the "newsroom," does the search for flight 370 lack imagination? we'll talk to a member of the 9/11 commission and ask whether there's any parallels between the missing jet and a previously unknown tidbit of information? we'll be right back.
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crews investigating flight 370 are now focused on a new
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area nearly 700 miles closer to the australian coast than originally thought. while the search area has narrowed, investigators are certainly no closer to finding out what happened to that plane, and that may be due to a so-called lack of imagination. it's a term best known from the 9/11 commission which found our leaders, bill clinton and george bush, could not believe terrorists would actually hijack a plane and then crash the plane into a building, but now we all know that's an entirely possible scenario. flash forward to today. could a lack of imagination be at play in the disappearance behind flight 370, too? joining us to discuss is jamie garelick. she's a member of the defense department's legal policy board. she practices law at willmur hale. >> you served on the 9/11 commission and how you arrived at that conclusion of lack of imagination?
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>> what we saw, policy makers, not much attributable to actual presidents but people who work for them over a period of years just could not imagine a plot of the complexity and terrorizing quality that happened on 9/11. so when we went back to look at what had occurred, we saw people who imagined lots of things but they didn't imagine what had occurred here. and i think the folks investigating this accident or this event are going to have to do the same thing. they're going to have to think about what might have happened. >> i was just going to ask you, the disappearance of flight 370 isn't as great a tragedy -- how can you even put any qualification on that? so i'm not going to go there. tell me about the parallels you see. >> there are as many parallels to 9/11 as there are to twa 800 which was another plane that fell out of the sky and no one
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knew whether it was caused by a terrorist event or an accident. there one could fish most of the wreckage out of the -- out of the water since it was in the waters surrounding new york, and we had a lot more data. and even there disagreements persisted for a very long time about what happened. and all you had to do in that circumstance is make sure that every possible idea is vetted against the facts. there are going to be people who will never believe what the facts show no matter what happens. there are people who believe today that george w. bush himself ordered the destruction of the twin towers and himself sent a rocket into the pentagon, and they will always believe that no matter what the facts show, but you have to hugh to the facts and test those facts against every hypothesis. >> i think they have so few facts in this instance. yesterday i talked to tom
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fuentes about this very thing. he's a former fbi guy. he says, of course they're considering all the possibilities. of course they are. he doesn't believe there's a lack of imagination at play in this scenario, but he's an investigator. he's with the fbi. investigators tend to be -- they're not going to come out and say, no, we're not considering every possibility. that's not even possible. what do you think? >> well, i don't know what the investigators are currently considering and i don't know that they are using their full imagination, but the way you get the full testing of every hypothesis is to get people with different points of view and have them examine each other's high pot cease and the facts. as you point out here, the fact here is a real derth of facts. the plane went down in a hellish environment constantly and whether there will be any facts to debate is an open question. >> do you think when all is said
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and done, and i'm hoping they'll figure it out, i hope so, and if they do, should there be some sort of international coalition put together so that the experts can sit down and determine what happened, why it happened, and determine a way in which it will never happen again? >> the way in which we become safer as a country and as a world is to examine our flaws and our faults in a very clear-eyed way. that's what we tried to do on the 9/11 commission. it led to reforms that were fairly university seally accept the american people and the congress. our military has a wonderful tradition of looking at events in hindsight to develop the lessons learned and to proliferate those lessons. companies do this. our regulatory agencies do this, and this one prompts that question on an international
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level. >> jamie gorelick, thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. >> my pleasure. the investigation into the disappearance of flight 370 has focused special attention on the captain, his professional affiliati affiliation, his personal life and his hobbies. he had an inhome flight simulator. cnn talked with the man who helped build that simulator. >> reporter: it's a high tech piece of equipment that's been the subject of much intrigue, concern, even suspicion. the flight simulator the captain had built in his home. police searched the homes of the pilots and co-pilots of mh-370 taking away the simulator for investigation. cnn has spoken to carnis who wrote blogs on flight simulators and he sold the captain additional parts and helped him put it altogether. >> he wanted to build a platform
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that can create the real motion of the plane in a degree. it has its units. >> reporter: that's done with a chair or platform that moves as though the pilot is seated in an actual plane to give the sensation of flying. the two exchanged at least 15 e-mails which have been shared with cnn. they mostly discuss technical details. the pilot looking for guidance on setting up his simulator. it's a passion that extended beyond the job. the captain often invited friends over to tryout the simulator. they saw nothing sinister in his hobby. they have to ask tough questions and files from the simulator have been sent to the fbi for investigation. >> it's very normal for pilots to have these. >> reporter: malaysian authorities mention concern over deleted files, something they say is normal, like deleting
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data from a game driver. he says he never discussed with captain zahari what he used the simulator for, but he wasn't concerned. >> it's someone that we know, we feel pretty sad about it. on top of that, we couldn't believe all the things about it, that it wasn't close to true. i couldn't believe that the man had passion for simulation like that and wanted to build it, to call and build something like that, would do something stupid, like sinister. >> captain zaharie seemed to have nothing to hide except his enthusiasm for flying. one of his friends told us, fefrp on a plane in trouble he would want a captain as enthusiastic as the captain.
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new in the next hour of "newsroom," families waiting for days and days for any real news of what happened to their loved ones aboard that flight. ahead in the next hour, the psychological toll that takes and how they're coping. sanjay gupta will join us to talk about that. >> the type of wreckage or objects that we're looking for is so close to the waterlines that our radar would not be able to pick it up so we are very reliant on lookouts who use binoculars. friday night, buddy.
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the big man has some moves. >> well, not really. >> the game to watch is the matchup between louisville and kentucky. they don't like each other. kentucky just handed wichita state the first loss of the year. louisville hasn't played a team as good as the wildcats. it is bound to be a barn burner. the university is actually handing out this flyer reminding students that coach fires aren't cool. you should respect your couch. the sweet 16 continues tonight. 7:27 eastern. yukon and iowa state will swear off. that game is followed by michigan state taking on virginia. should be another great night of basketball. "newsroom" will continue with carol costello after the break. what does everything mean to you?
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>> no credible radar information moving estimations closer to the aussie coast. are we really back to square 1. families of the passengers, fed up and furious, walking out of a meeting with malaysian officials, accusing them of a cover-up. this as investigators turn their focus on the pilot. how often should pilots be psychologically tested? a special edition of "newsroom" starts now. good morning. i'm carol costello. thanks so much for joining me. this morning, a new direction and possibly new leads in the search for malaysia airlines flight 370 just hours after dramatically shifting the focus hundreds of miles away, five aircraft have spotted objects in this new search area in the indian ocean. those objects are described as
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being of various colors, various sizes. they were photographed and those images will be assessed in the coming hours. overnight, officials abandoned their previous search areas and shifted their attention to this new zone nearly 700 miles away. so let's get the latest on these new search efforts. will ripley is in perth, australia, with more. take it away, will. >> hey, carol, the latest is we have this new search joan which is closer to shore, better weather, more time for the planes to search. it doesn't take as long to get out there. we had five planes that spotted debris in the search zone as you mentioned of various colors. for the first time now in this search, two planes, first, from new zealand and then from australia. they flew over the same patch of debris. it was white, light gray and blue. both planes from both countries spotted this debris. those colors are note worthy, because of the fact that you will find those colors on the exterior of a malaysia airliner
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and a lot of other things. the critical thing that's happening right now, we have photographs that are being analyzed as we speak. we also have ships that are heading to this area. they are going to pick up the debris and take a look at it. very promising news after some pretty discouraging information we have been looking in the wrong location. >> at least an aircraft has spotted something, although we don't know if that debris has anything to do with the plane. many thanks to you. i want to take a closer look that the new search area, 700 miles away from the previous search area. cnn's tom foreman is here as usual to map it out for us. >> hi, carol. if you look at the map and you look at how it has changed since this plane went missing. all the different areas and their search and the way they have jumped around, one of the clearest things is this. if any of this data was clear and obvious, we would have known it before 20 days and more had passed.
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this is where we are. perth is over here. you go 1600 miles out to what is the search area yesterday. you can see where the satellites were. 47,000 square miles. now, we shift again. about 700 miles to the north to get up into the red zone up there. it is really another big change. maybe it is promising. maybe it is good. here is a point of reference i like to bring up in all of this. with the air france crash, the surface debris, which was found in a much shorter period of time, only covered about 3 miles, in the terms of the bulk of it. on the bottom of the ocean, when they found the crash site, it only covered a small football field. if you took that few football fields and you brought it out here and you imposed it upon the very same area that we are talking about. one of the areas like yesterday's satellite area, i want to you look at what happens to this. if it settles over the area, it is not that big. it is a pinprick out there.
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very hard to spot in it any of these search areas. because of this, carol, look at this image, if you br i in the blow flo. all the currents out there. think about all this time that has passed since the plane disappeared. these are time lapse images from the national oceanic administration. this is where we are looking. we are looking down in here where there are these extraordinary competing currents. i don't know how you, with any confidence, can reverse engineer, even if you find the debris. how do you reverse engineer over more than 20 days to see where that few football size target is under the water, how things drifted to this point. it is an unbelievably difficult task and an awful lot of stat tt time ta stigss would say the same thing. we are joined by mary
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schiavo. she is an aviation attorney that r represents victims and attorneys. they adjusted the speed of the aircraft. that's how they came up with this new area. can you expound? >> there were so many different bits of information coming out and great discrepancy over a couple of things, altitude and air speed. once that plane made that left-hand turn, it reported in, all right, good night, turned left. then, there was a lot of disagreement over what happened, did it climb, did it ascend, how fast was it going? now, they have a better fix on the speed of the aircraft and drexel. they can put it at a more exact location where it ran out of fuel. it should be a better location to search. of course, it is a huge area to search. the drift may not be the most accurate at this point, the
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drift calculations. i was encouraged last night when the australian official said that they thought this might also be the point of impact, or the crash location as well, would be near here too. how they have calculated that is still what a mystery. presumably, they have put the hand shake data together with the aircraft speed and drexel data. if that's the case, they still have the chance to find the wreckage and the very important black boxes. >> the faster the plane is going, the faster it runs out of fuel. so they believe it went down sooner. let's talk about the hand shakes with the planes and the satellite. we talked a lot about the half ping they detected. you have told me that half ping is very important in locating that point of impact. might that be coming into play too? >> i would think so. this plane is unique. i would put it in layman's terms. if the engines are in trouble
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and they are turban engines, if you need to do a restart or you have problems with the engines, this plane has little air inlets. if your engines are in trouble, these drop down and give you air intake, almost like a ram jet. that kind of helps your engines and they are thinking that this half happened shake might actually be those little air inlets, those intakes, helping the engines or giving you that extra little boost. that might be the half hand shake. that would have happened after the plane was losing its engines. maybe they figured this half hand shake is where the plane finally lost its engines and was headed to the ocean. >> let's talk about the latest debris that five separate planes spotted. it is the same debris. they have described them in a similar fashion. they are rectangular and different colors. what does that say to you?
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>> on the planes, you have lots of rectangular things and rectangular things don't occur in nature. you have food service carts, cargo containers in the plane, potentially, pieces of luggage, rectangular equipment on the plane. you have a lot of things on aircraft and ships too that don't have rounded edges. in nature, things are kind of rounded. so it is encouraging that they find things that wouldn't just be out there, like clumps of seaweed. one time, they had found a whale carcus. the shapes and colors are very important. they are going to have to pick it up and get it on a ship to see if it is the plane and identify it. that will be a tremendous breakthrough. >> it is encouraging. they saw it with their naked eye. they weren't looking for debris in a satellite image as they
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have been for the past several days. >> that's very important. absolutely. not only that, they start with the naked eye but more than one aircraft picked it up. so it is something that is there. they will be able to find it. they have marked the position and will be able to send the ships there to finally haul it up on the deck of the ship. >> there will be tear patterns on the metal. if there was any kind of a fire explosion, explosions leave a pitting pattern on the metal and then other things including on remains. there is just lots of things you can tell by hauling it up on the deck of the ship. aside from the fact that they were looking for the drift pattern to find the black boxes. >> there is a chinese ship in the area. these five satellite images we have been talking about for the past several days, do they
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matter anymore? can we totally discount them? >> i don't think they matter much anymore. they think it is still part of the plane that might have drifted that far and it would be long distance drift patterns. what they need to do is zero in. stuff that has floated long distances away, if they have better locations now don't matter. what matters most is finding the wreckage and the point where it entered the water. that's where you are going to find the black boxes. >> mary sciavo, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> volunteers digging through the mud and muck on their hands and knees trying to get to anyone who could have survived saturday's devastating landslide. dan simon is live for us. >> reporter: good morning, carol. authorities here in washington state are preparing folks for some very bleak news this morning.
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today, president obama heads to saudi arabia, the final stop of a six-day tour on the agenda. mohammed jamjoom joins me to talk about it. why is saudi arabia so upset
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with president obama? >> the first is because of syria. the saw des want to see bashar al assad gone. they believed they were going to continue air strikes and they hadn't. the saudis would like to get weapons into syria that can take down aircraft. they would like to get them into the hands of the rebels. the americans are stopping them. the syria policy is one of the big reason they are upset. the other big reason, iran. saudi arabia and iran are the two biggest powers. saw dea saudi arabia is the big sunni power. they are deeply afraid of the iranians. they treat the middle east as a proxy war playground. you can feel this even in the country i live in. i'm based in beirut, lebanon.
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because iran has had a warming of relations with the u.s., that has made the saudis angrier. they don't want the iranians to be able to develop a nuclear program. they see this warming of relationship between the u.s. and iran as a real threat to not just saudi arabia but the sunni islamic con ten getingent in the east. >> most americans would say, why is america trusting iran? that's a real concern as well. >> absolutely. the saudis have said they do not want to see iran get a nuclear program. they made no bones about that. they have said that for over a decade. they do not want iran to have nuclear capability. the fact that there has been this reproach, that john kerry has spoken with the iranian
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foreign minister, the fact that the iranian nuclear program is being considered, steps are being taken, that really irritates the saudis. because of that, president obama wants to go to saudi arabia. he wants them to remain a key ally. they are angry and have been expressing that anger in many ways. a lot is riding on this meeting. will president obama be able to ameliorate the situation and make king abdullah happy. you just don't know yet. >> mohammed jamjun, thanks so much. at least 17 bodies have been recovered from the devastating mudslide in washington. dan simon is live in arlington, washington, near a rescue command center with more. hi, dan. >> reporter: good morning, carol. it has been six days since this
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catastrophic event and i think it is possible we will get a better sense in terms of number of people dead and the number of people missing. there is going to be a huge conference in a couple of hours. authorities are preparing everyone here in this area that the news is going to be quite bleak. they say that the death toll is going to rise significantly. at this point, you said, there are 17 confirmed dead. although we know that seven more people have been found in the debris. they just haven't taken the bodies out yet. those bodies near to be cleared by the medical examiner's office before they update the death toll officially. in terms of the number of people missing, as you said, it has been a confusing number. at one point, it was 176. it dropped down to 90 and still, an enormous amount of people. that gives you a sense in terms of the utter devastation that we are dealing with. first responders say there is still a disbelief in terms of the things they are seeing. it is not just seasoned rescuers that are going in there and
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searching through the debris. we are also talking about people that are untrained. community volunteers. >> when you say you are digging by hands, are you literally using your hands? >> yes, gloves on, garden tools. you try to move some debris and mud out of the way. you are literally, a handful of dirt at a time to get every board out of the way. it is so deep. it i six, seven feet deep. it is just roots, trees, wood, shards of glass, window frames. anything. those houses are blown into pieces. i can't believe it. >> you possibly can't tell, carol, but it is continuing to rain. we have a light drizzle. there is supposed to be a lot of rain this weekend. we are talking about a search
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area that spans an entire mile and mud that is 30-40 feet deep wechdeep. we are still talking about significant challenges for all the crews that are working around the clock. still to come, malaysian officials face empty seats after flying 370 families walk out of a briefing in protest. >> we usually do about half an hour to an hour at a time. it is quite fatiguing on the eyes, quite fatiguing on the body. we change over quite regularly. k you'll need when you retire? then we gave each person a ribbon to show how many years that amount might last. i was trying to, like, pull it a little further. [ woman ] got me to 70 years old. i'm going to have to rethink this thing. it's hard to imagine how much we'll need for a retirement that could last 30 years or more. so maybe we need to approach things differently, if we want to be ready for a longer retirement. ♪
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the partner over one passenger on flight 370 said her resignation over monday's announcement says all eyes ares lost. she says she is angry that malaysian officials could be so irresponsible in making that announcement. she believes there are other things that could have happened to the flight. today's new search area does not raise her hopes. >> we have seen them change their plan of attack an infinite number of times so far. it has each time been a false lead. that doesn't mean this time won't be more substantiated. i do take comfort in the fact that the australians are taking a concrete hand in this. but i can't keep guessing what's going to work and not work. i have to focus on being positive and trying to push a
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positive message forward and wait until there is actual concrete proof. of course, the families of flight 370 passengers have been demanding answers for three weeks now. today, they again took action in dramatic fashion. some 154 relatives walking out of a briefing. one accused malaysian authorities of hiding facts saying people will be held accountable. david mckenzie is with family members in china. >> for days they have been sitting listening calmly to briefings from malaysian authorities. many of them complaining they are not getting the answers they want. so, today, they stood up. this man, getting up saying they are united, that the malaysian authorities have been hiding the truth and that they will get their punishment, all of the family members stood up and walked out. >> this hotel has been their environment for weeks now, stuck in a cycle of meetings,
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recripple nation and anger. now, they say they want to go to kl to complain. david mckenzie, cnn, beijing. a malaysian airlines special assistance team has been sporting the family throughout their ordeal. the one caregiver says they can't give the relatives the one thing they want. >> you try to give them anything and everything you possibly can and it is still not good enough. the only thing they want that was the one thing we couldn't give them, just answers. they didn't care for the lavish rooms for the food. they didn't care for those. they just wanted answers despite rising tensions, the caregivers spoke of one friendship that's developed between a colleague and a passenger's relative. let's talk about the passengers and how they are coping. dr. sanjay gupta. i know you can only speak in gener
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generalizations. when you first hear of lock, your in shock and it turns to something else. >> you go through periods of denial and questioning and answer and eventually comes acceptance in almost almost cases. you are absolutely right. you are seeing the manifestations of all the stages. there is a real physical impact as well besides the prague pragmatic. your stress levels stay high. you are on edge and it causes all sorts of different physical problems. they have so much to deal with that it doesn't even meet the eye here. >> i think that would perhaps get me the most. a sense that you have no control over anything. you don't have any control over the investigation. you can't go out an look for your loved ones. you are not getting any answers. you are totally out of control.
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>> there is lack of control, unpredictability and uncertainty. those three things together if you talk to psychologists, those three things make it a very difficult, if not untanable situation. what is interesting is this whole idea there are so many people around the world talking about their loved ones, looking for their loved ones, this whole investigation. that is called the heroic period. it is bowelsterring lstering up feelings. eventually, that does go away. after that period ends, there can be even a larger krsh than from the initial incident. >> i interviewed a man who lost his stepmother and father on an egypt airlines flight that went down off the coast of nantucket. he said, what's really important is that these families have to draw together, to find strength this one another. that's really the only thing that helps. >> it really seems to be. it is this notion that it is us
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against the world a little bit. when you saw the lashing out at the cameraman, for example, he is not the government. he is a reporter. he is doing his job. he is somebody else that is not part of this group of people that are grieving. everybody is distrusting and lashing out. >> dr. sanjay gupta, thanks so much. >> we will have more on the angry families of flight 370 passengers. some say they have been lied to and they want answers now. alaska former fbi assistant director, if malaysia could really be hiding things from them. be right back. oh! the name your price tool! you tell them how much you want to pay, and they help you find a policy that fits your budget. i told you to wear something comfortable! this is a polyester blend! whoa! uh...little help? i got you! unh!
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and find an arthritis treatment for you. visit and ask your doctor about celebrex. for a body in motion. we have been talking about the anger and frustration that passengers of malaysian flight 370s families. they walked out of a meeting today. these families are so upset. joining us, good morning, tom. they continue to believe that malaysian authorities are hiding something from them. >> i don't think so. this is more or less a case of killing the mass injury. they don't like the fact that they are not being given the information they hoped to receive, which is the plane has been located.
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until they hear that, they are not going to believe much of anything. the malaysian government decided they weren't going to release information until they were going to verify it. they received so much international criticism. they said, okay, we will put things out sooner and be more forthcoming and then the technicians kept analyzing, reanalyzing, causing them to have to change what they said, what they learned, where they think the aircraft went and why they think it went there. now, they are kind of in position, they have lost credibility. once that has happened at an event, i don't think you can actually get it back. now, we have today the search area or last night, the search area being redirected to another location. well, that's not the malaysian government's fault. that analysis was actually conducted as i understand by ntsb, reanalyzing the data that's been supplied and looking at it in a different way and
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using different mathematical formulas. so the change that's made has not been made at the government's choice. it has just been there are so many people involved now, the australians are controlling the search itself. technicians from the u.s. and the u.k. are analyzing the data. the malaysians are at this point just messenger. let's talk about the criminal investigation that's ongoing in malaysia. we have seen from afar what appear to be some mistakes. for example, the malaysians waited for a week to search the pilot's home. this he didn't talk to his wife immediately. are we seeing some ineptitude on their part or are we all sitting back saying, we know how to do it better. some of the reporting was inaccurate from the beginning. they looked at the pilots. i know this for a fact. they looked at the pilots and crews and passengers from the first night the plane disappeared.
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that investigation was intense. now, they have a different legal system thap hou system than ours. everything pointed to catastrophic loss and mechanical failure and all of that. in their system, they needed more information that it could have been a criminal act on the part of the pilot to justify the actual seizure of his computer and the co-pilot's computer and sending that to be analyzed by the fbi. in that sense, everything else was being done. the interviews were being conducted immediately. that was ongoing. a lot more was being done by the police with a much stricter discipline of information if you will concerning that investigation, which is still the case today. they will get the fbi report back today. they have been pre-briefed and apparently nothing suspicious or derogatory has come from the examination of the flight simulator computer files and the co-pilot's files. that's being returned back to
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malaysia today. that investigation was done by the fbi at the request of the royal malaysian police force and so they have followed a fairly intensive investigative regimen from the beginning. there was that couple of days, week delay in getting the computers out of the home. they had the home surrounded and protected to make sure no one tampered with anything in the interim before they have the legal justification. we are trying to compare their legal system to ours. it is not the same. >> many thanks. i appreciate it. >> thank you, carol. >> still to come in the "newsroom," the search efforts move and for many, the doubts rise. are we back to square one? is this the best, hopeful sign we have had? we'll talk about that. iwe don't back down. we only know one direction: up so we're up early. up late. thinking up game-changing ideas,
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we have been flying aboard a p.a. plane along with american officials. she just landed and is on the phone right now. kyung, are you there? >> i just stepped off the uspa poseidon. i can tell you it was a very long day of hunting in this new search zone. we took off for a total of about nine hours in the air. we took us 2 1/2 hours to get there. they combed the search area that we were assigned, that this particular plane was assigned, for about four hours. one of the pilots described it perfectly. it is like mowing the ocean. you go back and forth across the ocean at a low altitude looking
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for debris. this plane did spot some debris. there was a bit of excitement but the plane got very, very close to the ocean. some white debris. an orange rope, a blue bag, but it wasn't significant enough to say it was connected to the plane at all. the ship was dispatched to these coordinates just to make sure. there were a couple of other sightings by two other countries that we heard from the pilot but as far as we can tell, there hasn't been anything that would be unusual that appears to be any debris directly connected to the plane. >> let's back up a little bit. kyung. >> as far as the area, it does appear to be calmer and vast. >> i wanted to back up and explain to ou viewers. this new search area is 700 miles away from the original search area. the way investigators arrived at this new area, they figured the
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plane was going faster than they previously thought. it ran out of fuel earlier and it probably crashed 700 miles north of where they originally thought. so the pilots aboard that plane are searching over the past several days. are they frustrated that it is now a whole new area and the other air why doesn't matter anymore. how are they feeling about that? >> well, you know, the interesting thing is that it just looks like they are doing their job. i kept asking the same thing. how can you stare out the window and look at this seemingly endless space again and again and again. this was their ninth time out at sea in a completely new area. they seemed to be taking it in stride. what i heard from several of them is that they understand as people who take to the air, three of them were pilots, they understand the feeling of
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families needing something in case of a catastrophic end. that's something they seem to be carrying with them throughout the day that helps them with. >> i want to put up a new image. this is from a new zealand plane. they spotted debris in the new search area that might be something. we have heard the new debris was spotted by five different planes. this is rectangular in shape. this is the only image we have. you can see that shape there. other images surrounding that one are different colors an a bit longer. most of them are a bit longer. i don't know in what order these planes take off? did the p-8 take off after hearing word that debris was spotted in this new area? >> caller: i don't know the
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breakdown of when the new zealand plane spotted that debris and when the p.a. spotted this debris. i can tell you that the white debris that was spotted by this one, one of them appeared to be circular. then, others were various shapes that were also light. that's one of several in this particular sighting, the way the pilots and crew member explained it to us. one patch of white debris, an orange string and a blue bag. >> as you're looking out the window and you're seeing this debris, you are probably getting pretty excited too, right? >> reporter: yeah. i couldn't see all of it but there was a camera that is just in front of the front landing gear and saw a very brief shot of what looked like, to me very untrained eye, some rope. i couldn't tell what that was.
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yeah. at one point, sure, everybody on board got a little excited. it is impossible to tell from a distance what anything is. >> i read an article online. you can take it with a grain of salt. i understand. the article said the planes are going out so often that the pilots and crew are suffering from fatigue. have you seen any sign of that? >> fatigue is a big concern. i won't say that it is a problem. it is something that they are all aware of. you saw them rotate. after 30 minutes to an hour, they were constantly self-checking or checking each other and making sure they rotate. if you stare out at the same space again and again and you have to stay alert, it's going to be a problem. that's why they constantly talked about it. they were constantly standing up and changing positions.
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that is something that they all worry about. >> i want to bring in richard quest, our aviation correspondent and tom fuentes, our aviation expert. i want to bring them back into the fold. can you explain to our viewers how they arrived at this new search area in the end january ocean? >> they went back and looked at the data concerning the earliest part of 370s flight. they recalculated what they knew from the radar data and the speed they believed. they realized that the plane had burned more fuel in those very first hour or so, hour and a half of the flight. well, obviously, just like your car, if you drive heavily at the beginning of a journey, you are not going to have that much gas left for when you are further along the road. that's what happened here. they then recool ccalculated th would have been less gas.
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long and short of it, they are able to work out, because it still has to be in the corridor. it still has to follow the pings. it had to be further north. therefore, that's how they worked it out. >> tom, that means these five satellite images we have been talking about are probably meaningless. the latest debris that the pilots spotted, the debris was actually there. should we feel more hopeful? >> carol, that's a big difference. you are right. the other debris was focused by satellites. the planes found nothing day after day after day. this time, you have the planes themselves, seeing objects in the water. that's a huge difference. they are able to drop buoys and mark the spot, which will help move the objects, hopefully, will move with the current and be able to track that with the buoys to get a ship there and pick something up.
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that's a huge difference. you have real time observation of objects in the water, not five--day-old reports. >> richard, five different planes spotted this debris. i know there is a chinese ship in the area. it is nighttime now. it will still be hard to find even though there is a ship in the general vicinity, right? >> look, i was optimistic with the thai satellite objects but for the same reason that i'm optimistic about these. the more reports you get, the more optimistic you can become. so, in the old zone when we were getting reports of hundreds of objects, you thought, yes, this clearly must be it. they are in the right area. it is the same principle here. here we have five flights. all of whom have seen something, where previously they have seen nothing. we now know that they are in the right zone according to the
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latest data. remember, carol, it is the best lead they have got. it is not perfect from a long way. it is the best. so i am cautiously optimistic, because they have seen something today. because five have seen something today. on that first sorting over the zone. >> tom, i'll ask you a question from an investigative standpoint. the search area keeps shifting. that has to be frustrating. you spend so much time looking at an area and it turns out to be the wrong area. you have nine or ten days until the batteries start to die and the flight reporters under water. >> that's true. the investigators try to keep this in check. you go aft new information. the personnel, the military personnel on that aircraft, have a moderate amount of enthusiasm.
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he are not going to see more than that. they are trained to keep their emotions in check as much as possible and keep doing their job. it is not going to be time to celebrate anything in terms of finding debris until a piece has been fished out of the water and examined and identified as being part of the airplane. >> tom fuentes, thanks as always. >> thank you, carol. nutrients and essentil also found in mother's milk. purina puppy chow. ...return on investment wall isn't a street... isn't the only return i'm looking forward to... for some, every dollar is earned with sweat, sacrifice, courage. which is why usaa is honored to help our members with everything from investing for retirement to saving for college. our commitment to current and former military members
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tensions are mounting in ukraine. u.s. officials say up to 40,000 russian troops have amassed near the ukrainian border. those troops and russia's recent annexation of crimea are sparking fierce of a future incursion. president obama expressed concern. >> you have seen a range of troops massing along that border under the guise of military exercises. these are not what wrush ya would normally be doing. it may simply be an effort to intimidate ukraine tore may be that they have additional plans. karl penhaul joins me now with a report. >> reporter: we are just a few miles that way from the russian
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border. we are in northeastern ukraine right now. we have moved a few miles up the road from where we were last time. i spoke to you. behind me, a ukrainian armored personnel carrier with machine guns mounted on the front of it is awes well. that is being dug into a position. there are other positions that the ukrainian military doesn't really want me to show you. there is a tank and other hardware there as well. they are in this position to defend a strategic bridge inside the ukraine that leads from the russian border. that is in case russian troops come across here. as you mentioned, the pentagon's figures, 40,000 russian troops massing on the other side of that border. the ukrainian government says the figure was almost twice as high. the ukrainian government says that the russians have tanks, artillery pieces and attack helicopters.
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the local population here on high alert. they are not taking anything for granted. they know the ukrainian military in cri in crimea, all are suspended to russia. local civilians have been coming together and forming self-defense committees. they have been going to army and navy surplus stores buying their own uniforms for about $120 a time. they are wearing british military uniforms, german military uniforms, any military uniforms they can get their hands on and putting together these self-defense brigades. they have been dealing trenches and putting up berarricades of sandbags. they say they will put up smoke screens from the russians roll across. the americans don't know what really the russian intentions
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are. they know that force across that side of the border is so big and so fast, it could be here with zero warning, carol. >> i can't imagine the courage in the face of russian military might, digging trenches and setting tires on fire. it is astounding. karl penhaul, reporting live. thank you so much for joining me today. i'm carol costello. "at this hour" with berman and michaela after a break. geico motorcycle. see how much you could save.
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good morning. i'm michaele pereira. >> i'm john berman. >> new information has changed the search zone for flight 370. already,